Life Of Jason

It’s 6:42pm and I’m live at the Illegal Immigration Debate at the Library Center on South Campbell. I’ll be recording the event and posting the unedited audio later tonight. Thanks to Springfield Metro Republicans for hosting the event and to Steve Helms for the OK to record the event. This should be a very lively discussion. The room is filling up rapidly. I’ll post thoughts throughout the night as the discussion goes along and then later you can go back and listen to the whole event and make up your own minds!

For the sake of fast typing…Yolanda Lorge will be shortened to YL, Tony Messenger to TM and Vincent David Jericho to VDJ.

The moderator, Lucas Case, informs me that they plan to go about an hour with the discussion. Questions from the audience are being written on cards and given to the moderator to ask of the panel.

A very good size crowd on hand for the event.

TM and YL are here and in place. We’re about five minutes from the start of the event. I harassed Tony that I wore my Martin Truex, Jr. hat, coat and shirt just for him. He complained about the penalty given to Carl Edwards which I agree was way too severe for the infraction. VDJ arrives and takes his seat wearing a very dapper hat.

Now, if I go a few minutes between updates, realize I’m also monitoring the recording so I’ll be in and out of the blog. Just stay tuned.

Steve Helms welcomes the crowd to the event.

Here’s the panel…from left to right…Vincent David Jericho, Yolanda Lorge, Tony Messenger.

Rules of order:

Each panelist will have about 20 minutes of talk time and may use as much time as they want to answer. Moderator will read all questions and may allow a follow up. All questions have to be written on a 3×5 card and given to a Metro Republicans board member.

Tony Messenger’s statement includes a reading of Ronald Reagan’s “City on a Hill” speech.

Yolanda Lorge tells her story of coming to the US via marriage and arrived on a fiancee visa then became an American citizen. She says she knows the law and she knows that coming here without documentation is illegal. She said her group has been around for 20 years and that she knows many people who are dealing with this situation. “Because I know them personally, I know they’re not criminals.”

Vincent David Jericho threatens me for recording him at a public event. (The hosts of the event gave permission and have not asked me to stop doing the recording.)

VDJ says the panel dynamic is against him 2 to 1 tonight but he doesn’t care because he’s right. He also says he’ll stand against those who want to lead his country down a course of destruction. He says YL is a lovely lady and will make men want to protect her but then he read the law about shielding illegal immigrants is committing a crime themselves. (Which is true.) “She admits she is a criminal by our own laws.”

“We’re not talking about people who are here to pick strawberries…we’re talking about the security of our country.”

VDJ says TM “plays fast and loose with the facts.” He accuses TM of leaving out parts of an interview with Sheriff Jack Merritt. “I have a hard time with people who play fast and easy with facts.” He mentions a letter by John Reynolds on Tuesday March 4th that attacks Jack Merritt and is critical of the jail. Mr. Reynolds said the taxpayers are being raped with higher taxes. “This language is meant to appeal to populists.” “Damn Sheriff, damn taxes.”

VDJ says he has the other side of the story from a woman who will be on his show. The woman is apparently the wife of Mr. Reynolds and said that the man is in an institution in Fenton and that he violated an order of ex-parte. He said that Mr. Reynolds’ wife is in fear for her life and that she tried to contact TM but he would not help her.

“I believe in this country. I believe in the rule of law. I believe in truth.” VDJ pulled out a package with two tennis balls in them and threw them to TM saying this would be the only set he would ever have.

VDJ says “sovereign nation” is a nation that is ruled by a set of laws. A country that is not subservient in any way to any other country. “The US does not need help from the UN or any other foreign body.”

YL says it’s “a nation that is not part of a group of nations but it apart by it’s own laws” unless we’re talking about international laws.

TM “it’s pretty simple…Vince got it right.”

Question: What is your answer to the illegal immigration problem?

YL: There is no one answer…there is many answers like our quotas for all countries that want to come to the US where the same amount of visas are given to different countries. She says Mexico with 110 million gets the same amount of visas as a country with three million people. “We have laws that are not designed for modern times.” “It is easy to get here if you are with a country that is seen as our enemy” but if you come from a friendly country it’s almost impossible.

TM: Generally supports the policies of John McCain. You have to reduce incentives to employers and you should reduce the time it takes for someone to work through the system. “You need to provide some sort of reasonable path to citizenship after penalty for those that are here.”

VDJ asked how many support comprehensive reform. (Almost no one raised hands.) His solution is to close the borders, penalize employers and easily verify citizenship.

Question: Why are we not enforcing our laws that we have now?

TM: Lack of political will in Congress. Washington DC is broken. We come up with good ideas and then we don’t put the money behind it. It takes too long for the Congress to fund things like the border fence and more border patrol agents.

VDJ: The good thing is the people aren’t broken and the people stood up and made their voice heard months ago. The labor unions and American Chamber of Commerce want cheap labor and both parties are bowing to them. He says citizens need to stand up to the unions and the American Chamber of Commerce.

YL: There is not enough funding to enforce those laws. We should find the means to deal with immigration laws in an orderly fashion instead of letting it grow and then waiting for another Ronald Reagan to offer amnesty.

TM: He thinks Vince is right when he says the business lobby is part of the problem regarding Congress because they won’t cross big business. He disagrees with labor unions because he spoke to local union leaders who are for reform because they feel it effects their jobs. “They’re just as interested in protecting their jobs.”

Question: When you say close the borders, do you include the Canadian border?

VDJ: The last thing we need is more Canadians in this country.

YL: If it is because of national security then we should close both borders but keep in mind none of the terrorists came through Mexico. The people they found building bombs were in Canada. In Mexico, “most of the Arabs are from Lebanon” and that there are very few Muslims in Mexico. She says they should increase the borders and ports “because those people flew here.”

VDJ: According to government reports released in 2006, in 2005 there were 19,500 illegal immigrants from terrorist countries.

TM: We need to do better job of enforcement on both border.

Question: How much is the cost of illegal immigration to the US economy?

YL: She says that illegals are not eligible for government help. “If they’re working here, they’re working on false documents. Employers may not know how to verify or don’t want to verify.” She says they’re not eligible for food stamps and Medicare. The kids are eligible for schools and they’re eligible for WIC. She said go  to any social services with fake documents and try to get welfare, food stamps or unemployment benefits. Or go to a hospital, for emergency services, hospitalization, etc. and see if you will received those services for free because you are undocumented.

TM: As to cost, it’s a complicated issue. With some illegal immigrants they do pay more in the system because they pay federal taxes through a tax ID number and because they don’t have a valid social security number they can’t get refunds back to them. When they work blue collar jobs that pays taxes they’re paying more in than taking out. He believes the estimate nationwide is billions of dollars.

VDJ: St. Louis newspaper said the cost is $26 million in Missouri. Households headed by illegals put 26.3 billion in costs to the Fed government and only payed in around 16 billion. On average, the cost the illegal households is half that of other households…but the tax payment from those households is 1/4 the amount of other households.

YL: “They do not get medicaid. Illegals cannot get medicaid for anything after the welfare reform.”

Question: Do you feel that illegal immigrants babies born here should be US citizens?

TM: That’s the current law of the land and I support it.

VDJ: Vince quotes the 14th amendment. He said it was written after the Civil War to protect blacks. He said it was never designed for someone to cross the border, drop the baby and get all the benefits of being a citizen. He said they get benefits by “anchor babies.” “In no way do I believe these people should be granted American citizenship.”

YL: It is the rule of law and most countries affirm citizenship to babies that are born in their countries. If you want to change it, talk to our legislators and change it.

Question: How long did it take for you (VDJ) to be a legal citizen and would you have done anything different if it would take five or ten years more?

VDJ: He says he paid a great price on his family financially, emotionally and on his wife’s health. “There is nothing I would do different to have the privilege and the honor to be a citizen of the greatest country in the world.” It took seven years for him and he said that Tony was right in that it could be a little easier. When he was sworn in of the 135 people there countries from all over the world had been represented. He said the judge thanked them for their sacrifice and said that “now your citizenship means something to you.”

Question: Is it too hard to immigrate here?

YL: She said it’s easy to get here by getting married “but try to get here any other way.” She said she chose to be a citizen but that she didn’t have to become a citizen. She said she loves this country, her children love it and her son is serving in the military. She said it’s not a matter of how proud you are of the country but how hard to work to make it a better country.

TM: He said listening to Vince and Yolanda makes him think he takes his citizenship a little for granted. He said he thinks Yolanda has it right that the path to becoming a full time resident or path to citizenship should be difficult enough so that when someone works hard to get it appreciates it as much as they both do. He doesn’t believe the path needs to be easier but that the system needs to be streamlined so they can get citizenship while contributing to the country.

Question: If it’s OK for illegal aliens to break American laws, which laws are OK for Americans to break for a better way of life?

TM: I don’t think it is OK for illegal aliens or anyone else to break the laws but I think the punishment should fit the crime. He talked about getting a ticket for speeding and that he was given the appropriate penalty for it. He said the problem is that deportation isn’t the punishment to fit the appropriate crime. He said it’s not realistic to deport all the illegals and that it won’t fix the problem. “The punishment doesn’t fit the crime. We should be fining people and letting them get back to work.”

VDJ: “They need to go home and they need to stay home. They broke the law.” “We don’t need to deport anyone…we need to close the borders and we need to enforce the laws on the books for employers who hire illegal aliens.” If there’s no jobs, they go home.

YL: “If we close the borders, it would only take care of Mexicans.” She said 45% of illegals in the US do not come from Mexico. She said many came with a visitor visa or student visa and stayed after the expiration of the visa. She said if you’re Cuban and go into Mexico and then to the US border and show you’re Cuban they will let you in. She said the system is broken.

Question: Are there or what are the differences in waiting time and requirements (for legal entry) between Canada, Mexico and the middle east?

YL: She said she doesn’t know the differences. She said that people from the middle east came on student visas and stayed for flight school. She said that from countries other than Canada you have to show you have $10,000 in the bank and own land just to come and visit Disneyland.

TM: I have no idea.

VDJ: “I do actually” (a good laugh from those in attendance.) He said that his father in law had to sign a paper that if Vince became fiancially unable to meet obligations that he would pay it. He said that more Mexicans get into the country than Canadians.

Question: Should the government make English the official language.

TM: No, it already is. The statute law is already in Missouri that English is the official language. He doesn’t believe the debate does anything but make things divisive. “It only takes away the only chance for success “

VDJ: Divisive is a great word to use when you’re losing a debate. He talked about Quebec in Canada trying to separate from the country. The cost to Canada to having two national languages. He says yes, we need English as the only official language in the United States.

YL: She says even if it’s official it won’t change much about people learning English. She said that it should be a part of the citizenship test. She said the immigration reform was proposing that they would be required to learn English. “They wouldn’t get instant residency.”

VDJ: Asked if any teachers were in attendance who made more than $30,000 their first year and then said his daughter was going to make $45,000 her first year teaching English in New York City to immigrants who can’t speak English.

Question: After mentioning some states that have enforced tougher laws on employers resulting in an exodus of illegal immigrants…should states enforce laws to handle immigration?

VDJ: He said that he believes in state’s rights. We’re willing to pay 600% more for our corn because of government policies toward ethanol…and he wouldn’t mind paying more for strawberries if it meant an American was getting a good wage.

YL: She said that many of them came to work and they didn’t come to get on the welfare rolls…if there are no jobs they will leave.

Question: What does La Raza mean in English (to YL.)

YL: It means “the race.” She said it’s weird because hispanics aren’t just one race so they don’t represent just one race and she doesn’t know where the name comes from.

TM (to state’s rights question): He said that there are already federal laws on immigration so it’s not reasonable to have states solve the problem because it’s a national problem. He said it’s not a good deal when employers have offices all over the country to have different laws on every states and it increases the burden. “The problem is with the feds.” Our congressmen, our senators read the newspapers and they see what’s going on and they all are paying attention. “We need to keep having our voices heard” on the federal level where it needs to be fixed.

TM then told a story about his kid loving Dora the Explorer. He said he thinks it’s great his child is learning various Spanish words. He said that his son was jumping on the bed and told Tony to “say salta” which means jump. He said nothing is going to change with English only because the marketplace is determining the bilingualism. “We don’t need the federal government or the state government changing the constitution.”

VDJ said if you travel to the middle east, to Africa, to Asia…because it’s the international language of trade.

Closing statements:

YL: “Most of us want to do what is right for our country.” She says we’ve had this debate all through American history because this is an immigrant country.

TM: Thanked everyone for being at the event. “This is a great crowd for any sort of discussion.” “We’re here, we’re talking, we’re having a vibrant discussion.”

VDJ: Divide and conquer. He felt that at least 80% of the people in the room agree on their opinion against comprehensive immigration reform. He said that he knows who is attacking the country when it comes to immigration and it’s domestic. “There are men and women who wore the uniform of this country to protect her…not all of us had that honor…but we all have the same duty as they did to protect this country.” He said that he will not stop no matter how much he’s mocked. He said that the “city on a hill” was speaking of the “great experiment” and that the whole of the world was watching for the US to fail and that we cannot fail. As Reagan said, “she remains the bright light in the dark to those crying out for freedom.” It cannot be attained through illegal or immoral means. If people don’t make a stand then “we will lose this country.”

Steve Helms thanked the moderator and the panelists. He reminded people April 3rd that they will be discussing education and school choice.