The discussion about the situation involving the New Life Evangelistic Center and the proposed Veterans center near Central High School is heating up and I’ve received nasty comments and hate mail from the radical supporters of the Veterans center. Their supporters have also stepped up their rhetoric and in some cases a few are using their controlled avenue of media to allow misinformation, smears and distortions to be spread without challenges.
Do not believe their campaign that those opposed to the center hate Veterans or hate the homeless. This is just a smear tactic used to try and silence people in opposition. This is not a hate campaign against Larry Rice. This has nothing to do with problems at any other facility in the city. It has nothing to do with neighbors wanting to protect property values.
Those in opposition to this center have a very valid basis for their opposition to it and that is the record of violence at shelters run by New Life Evangelistic Center and the unwillingness of those associated with NLEC to take steps to assure the community the same things will not happen at this facility. The problem for people who want to see this is that they have no solid way to refute those claims so they’ve taken to using Nazi references and other verbal assaults and attacks to try and distort the situation in a pathetic attempt to try and guilt people into supporting their side.
Again…this has NOTHING to do with people hating the homeless or hating Veterans.
Anyone who comes into this debate trying to play the patriotism card and say you’re against Veterans by not supporting NLEC is just trying to smear someone in the same way we’ve seen far-right wingers do in saying anyone who doesn’t support the war in Iraq hates the troops. Anyone who comes at you with arguments that other facilities that could cause more problems are near schools should just be told that if there is a problem with those facilities then it should be brought up but that’s irrelevant to the matter of this new shelter. It doesn’t matter whether or not other shelters in the city are near schools or playgrounds.
The worst part on all of this is that those supporting Veterans and the homeless are causing more harm to their situation than good. Their radical statements (like the Nazi comments to the News-Leader) do nothing but make them appear to be extremists who want to force their will on the community with little regard for the impact it may have to anyone else around them. They really don’t even talk about helping the Veterans or homeless as much as demonizing those who disagree with their views.
Most importantly in all of this…ignore the disinformation that we do not have a problem with the homeless and especially homeless Vets in our community. There is a very real need for what the NLEC wants to bring to the facility near Central high school. That’s why until they started making Nazi references and started the smear tactics against their opponents I was supporting their efforts. We cannot lose sight of the fact the people who would use the NLEC facility are in our community right now and are in need right now. The fact we’re having this debate shows that groups in our community who are supposed to take care of the less fortunate…like churches and other ministry efforts…have more work to do in Springfield and Greene County.
At this point, I don’t think that NLEC is the group that needs to make something like this happen…but it does create a golden opportunity for another ministry in our community to step up and say they would create a center in Springfield to do what is being proposed at the facility near Central High School. They would likely find a wide base of support even among those who are right now against the current facility.
Based on the violence that occurs at these shelters as compared to the violence that occurs in our government schools I’d much rather have homeless veterans for neighbors then a bunch of unruly kids taught in our government school system.
It appears our children are also much safer around homeless vets then they are school teachers as well. http://www.badbadteacher.com highlights all the sexual encounters involving school teachers and what has transpired to them during the trials. Not to mention how many children get molested in our houses of worship or those that are some how deemed leaders of religious organizations. Nope if I were a parent in that district I would be wanting to know all about the people that have my kids the longest and those are the teachers.
As for nazi comments let’s not forget the nazi party was a bunch of socialist that wanted government to control the state and here in Springfield we have a city council that seems destined to try to duplicate that effort in as many areas as possible.
NONE of that has anything to do with this situation, Tom. NONE.
You want to raise those issues go right ahead. They have nothing to do with the Rice situation.
And I know you despise the government but our city council isn’t anything like the Nazis. Not even close.
Those issues have everything to do with this shelter. We have more children being molested by school teachers then we have school children being accosted by homeless veterans and yet the NIMBY crowd reared their heads not on an issue which could be in our own schools but on an issue which has a remote possibility of criminal action occurring. Has anyone asked Mr. Rice the type of background checks he might do on the individuals which he plans on helping ? NO
Has anyone asked Mr. Rice if he plans on some sort of security at this facility because it is close to a school ? Once more NOPE.
The man has had recent problems at some of his facilities and everyone is ready to drive him out of town with pitchforks. On the flip side of the coin gun free school systems have been getting hammered by those that can’t read an carry firearms onto campus and thus blow people away. Has anyone asked for the schools to be moved out of residential areas as a means to protect the neighborhoods ? Once more the answer is NO !!!!!
Looking at one side of a coin still allows you to spend it however if you don’t flip it over you’ll never see what is on the other side.
I don’t despise government like you try to portray, in some instances it is a necessary evil, however with the recent container ordinance, spending increases, money laundering, and various other schemes designed to bilk the taxpayers it isn’t difficult to see that the city council wnats to control everything at all cost.
You can continue to believe this city is wholesome and non corrupt, but then you wouldn’t being facing the reality that is city government.
I really question your version of reality if you think the city council is like Nazis, Tom.
Has anyone spoken to the actual core issue? Why is the City involved in this decision at all? Is it a zoning issue? Does the City own the property? Are the City Council members directly entangled in this property? Why doesn’t Larry Rice have the right to establish this private operation wherever he chooses? Is Larry Rice asking the citizens of Springfield to foot the bill for this operation?
If the City owns the property, then they should sell it at a fair price. If the debate is whether the City should fund the operation, then I say no, absolutely not. If there is charity work to be done, then it should be funded by voluntary charitable contributions.
Sorry for my ignorance of the issue, but it doesn’t seem that the rhetoric should enter into the decision at all.
Once more you have chosen to place a meaning on words which I haven’t said. No where in any of my post did I say Springfield city council are nazi’s although the meaning of nazi is the national/socialist party. It wasn’t the party that killed the jews or rooted out the homeless it was a group of individuals that represented a movement. The party is a none entity it was the GROUP think mentality that accomplished the killing of jews.
Group think mentality, we see this at every city council meeting since the “NO” button doesn’t seem to work under that table. Now I know NO one on our city council has requested the killing of the jews, however the container ordinance is a business killer here within the city limits.
You have such a decent blog don’t ruin it by trying to put words into peoples mouth or make some far fetched meaning that isn’t even implied when stretched out to the furthest degree. You seem to want to suggest the nazi party was only instrumental in killing the jews, however before this started the nazi party was quite instrumental in cleaning up the streets, keeping crime to a minimum and appeared to be a decent governemnt. Just because you were taught at Shippensburg High that the nazi party only killed jews doesn’t mean you couldn’t do a little research on what transpired before the government went nuts. After all Hitler didn’t campaign on a platform of killing jews, had he done that history would be quite different from what it is now.
Has anyone spoken to the actual core issue?
Yes they have except those that don’t want to hear will only listen to those that believe on the one side of the issue.
Why is the City involved in this decision at all?
Because the city is the imperial arbiter of everything that happens within the city just ask the numerous people that have tried to do something within this city. If the planning, development & zoning department doesn’t like what you want to do with YOUR property Nick Heatherly and his department will stomp on you like a bug
Is it a zoning issue?
It is quite possible that it falls under such, however I would assume the building is currently zoned G/I which would allow such establishment to be there.
Does the City own the property?
They would like to except federal law usurps their authority to proclaim such much to this dismay of the city.
Are the City Council members directly entangled in this property?
Since it was a federal building I would have to say NO !!!!
Why doesn’t Larry Rice have the right to establish this private operation wherever he chooses?
Because there are members of this community that believe they should have a say so on what you do with YOUR property and the city council and city leaders believe they have the same authority. Just read the ordinances that exist on what you can and can’t do with what you thought was your property.
Is Larry Rice asking the citizens of Springfield to foot the bill for this operation?
As of this point we aren’t aware of where the funding is going to come from, but I would bet much of the money is tax money. Considering these individuals are veterans we as a society owe it to them to establish a place where they can receive help
Not to get involved in a game of “did not, did too” - but here’s what you said, Tom:
“…let’s not forget the nazi party was a bunch of socialist that wanted government to control the state and here in Springfield we have a city council that seems destined to try to duplicate that effort in as many areas as possible.”
What was the point of mentioning the Nazis, if not to imply a comparison between the Nazis and Springfield City Council?
And no, Hitler did not campaign for elective political office on a platform of killing Jews. But the creation of a “judenfrei” (Jew-free) Germany had been an important part of the Nazi Party platform since it was founded in 1919. By the time Hitler ran for the German presidency in 1932, everybody in Germany knew what it would eventually mean for German Jewry. A pity that so few of them cared.
In reference to your comment I made mention of government control after the term nazi of which the city council has adamantly voted for with every passing council session. To say our council is fascist wouldn’t be a stretch since they haven proven it in many areas of the city.
The main difference between socialism and fascism is the following; in socialist nations the government controls the means of production and industries are under government ownership. Under fascism we have private ownership of industry with government control and regulation of said industry.
Fascism sounds quite similar to not only Springfield but to the United States as a whole.
The reason for mentioning the nationalist/socialist party(nazi) is because it was brought up in the article and that the opinion of the person writing the blog was that it was a moronic statement. The statement wasn’t uttered under the essence of killing jews, it was mentioned in a manner that local government wants to have control of the entire city which is completely truthful.
As for a party platform determining how the country is going to be governed I might mention that the republican party has as part of their platform for being all about fiscally responsible government and liberty and freedom. Nothing could be further from the truth when they get placed into positions of power politically.
“The worst part on all of this is that those supporting Veterans and the homeless are causing more harm to their situation than good. Their radical statements (like the Nazi comments to the News-Leader) do nothing but make them appear to be extremists who want to force their will on the community with little regard for the impact it may have to anyone else around them. They really don’t even talk about helping the Veterans or homeless as much as demonizing those who disagree with their views”.
And this statement is different from those try to block the shelter in what manner.
Both sides want to control the debate and both sides are hell bent and determined to FORCE their will on the other side and the community with no regard on how it will impact anyone else around them.
It is time that the sides come together and hash out the differences for the benefit of those that could be assisted by this shelter and those that live within or attend school near this building.
Tom, I still have to agree with Jason’s contention that Zeniewicz’s letter was moronic.
The differentiations you draw between the principles behind socialism and fascism are all well and good. But they meant little or nothing even to the Nazis and Fascists themselves, who were hardly what I’d call “men of principle.” The specific Nazi actions Zeniewicz referenced in his letter are of a sort for which the Nazis are best known and deservedly loathed: elimination of Jews and other so-called “Untermenschen.” He was clearly accusing the City Council of wanting a “Final Solution” of the homeless problem. Regardless of how angry Zeniewicz was - I know that he was once homeless himself, and I respect how he has made something of his life - that was absolutely uncalled for.
All that said, I agree with *you* that both sides in this screaming match should come down off of their high horses and see what can be done for homeless veterans in a way that won’t alarm many members of the community. Easier said than done, I’m afraid.
Bright Yellow Gun wrote:
“All that said, I agree with *you* that both sides in this screaming match should come down off of their high horses and see what can be done for homeless veterans in a way that won’t alarm many members of the community.”
…and so with THAT in mind:
“Council actually adopted as the only new legislative priority that we had for 2008, was to seek support from the state and federal government for additional veterans services in our community.” - Mayor Pro Tem Gary Deaver at the February 25 City Council meeting.
There is much talk about “moderate” compromise during this election season. Let’s watch and see if it’s possible that it be taken out of the talk category and put into the action category at our local level.