LIVE! Springfield City Council 4
22 10 2007Tonight’s blog entry on the Springfield City Council is coming live from the council chamber itself. I will be posting updates throughout the meeting on events that happen in close to real time. The names will not be changed to protect the innocent…or the guilty.
First two things I’ve noticed. 1. The pornographic graffiti is still in the men’s room here at City Hall. 2. The city’s web filter blocks the Daily Audio Bible website. Apparently a daily podcast of someone doing nothing but reading the Bible is so offensive that it had to be blocked from being accessed like a pornographic site. So it’s funny…porn on the bathroom walls is fine, listening to a Bible podcast on the city WiFi is not. Forgive me if I think that’s a little backward. OK, a lot backwards.
I’ll continue to update throughout the evening so just stay tuned for updates.
Urgent first update….6:11pm. I talked with Rick Baier of BC Developments. He told me that Becky Spence is NOT part of BC Developments and did not speak for them when she addressed the council. Becky Spence was someone that BC Developments was looking to make a partnership with to do the deal in Springfield. Mr. Baier also said that the Springfield News-Leader’s quotes from him were accurate in that he did not get told by city employees that the fix was in and it was a “done deal for John Q. Hammons.” Mr. Baier said the city made a wise deal in going with John Q. Hammons’ offer and that once BKD backed out of the building proposal the risk became too great for development.
This does not bode well for a certain handful of people.
6:27pm Update: Local talk show host Vincent David Jericho shows up in a very neatly tailored suit and looking very dapper.
6:35pm Update: Denny Whayne arrives with Doug Burlison and John Wylie moments later. Had a chance to shake hands and meet Councilman Wylie but didn’t really get a chance to talk with him at length. Said “hi” to Councilman Burlison whom I’d met at the last meeting.
6:45pm Update: Found out that Anita from the City Clerk’s office…whom we gave mucho props in this blog two weeks ago…is blowing off the meeting now that she’s an underground internet icon. However, I was told she was ribbed soundly by co-workers so not all was lost. Gary Deaver arrives.
6:49pm Update: Cindy Rushefsky and Mary Collette arrive.
6:54pm Update: Had a nice chat with Councilman Wylie. He seems like a decent enough guy.
6:57pm Update: Talked with Councilman Chiles about taking him up on using the WiFi to blog live. Was able to meet Mayor Carlson for the first time.
7:00pm Update: Meeting called to order. Ralph Manley out of town but all other members present.
7:03pm Update: Consent agenda changes. 2007-321 moved to council bills for second reading. Agenda passes with change unanimously.
7:05pm Update: Jack Hembree and James Owen were sworn in as members of the Springfield/Greene County Environmental Advisory Board. Michael Babcock sworn in as member of the Landmarks board. Mayor Carlson thanks the men for their willingness to serve and praised the volunteers on all boards for giving back to the community. “This city was founded on the spirit of volunteerism and community,” Carlson said.
7:07pm Update: Bob Cumley responds with updates. Mr. Cumley reports he has no updates to a request from Councilwoman Collette regarding annexation issues.
7:08pm Update: Council Bill 2007-334. An increase in cap amounts for sewer tax bills and Sewer Extension Cost Recovery Fees. Councilwoman Collette asked if the reason the final 1% of the city that is not sewered is because of rocky and hard to manage land. Explanation: the cap was set for the standard size of a parcel of land. There has been an increase in the cost for the sewer for an average size lot in terms of construction and materials. Councilman Chiles asked about the success level of the program. Answer: the quality of water has increased and general health conditions have improved as well. Over 3,000 tracts has no swear and now less than 1,000 remain. Councilman Wylie asked if the low interest loans were available. Answer: The loans and cap limits are both available for people in need by contacting the Planning Department. Councilman Deaver asked how many citizens have taken advantage of the program since inception. No answer was given because they didn’t have that information available. Comment was added that in some older areas of the city some citizens have not taken advantage of the sewer system and are using septic tanks. Voted on in two weeks.
7:13pm Update: Council Bill 2007-335. The term sheet between the city and John Q. Hammons for the “Arena Site.” Mary Lilly Smith put on a presentation to the Council and those present regarding the business points of the deal. Ms. Smith provided a time line of the process for the deal starting with the October 30, 2006 deal with Missouri State that freed up the site.
December 7, 2006: Property disposition approved by Planning and Zoning commission
January 10, 2007: TIF Commission authorized First Request for Proposals
February 20, 2007: First Request for Proposals Due
March 13, 2007: City Council establishes Selection Criteria
April 9, 2007: TIF Commission sends out requests based on Criteria
June 5-6, 2007: City Meets with Developers
June 21, 2007: Developers respond to first request
July 2, 2007: TIF sends all four proposals to City Council
July 20, 2007: Three developers respond to second request for information.
August 3, 2007: Began to negotiate with John Q. Hammons and HCW
All four proposals had office building, three of four had a hotel (Opus did not.) BKD found an alternative site on John Q. Hammons’ land and that really swayed the deal toward John Q. Hammons.
Hotel 150-200 Embassy Suites, 7-10 stores, full service wrestaurant with room service, fitness center, indoor pool and indoor connection between Expo Center and Jordan Valley Car Park.
Construction begins in late 2008 and done in 24 months.
Deal is $7 million by September 2008. Requires to add 15,000 sq. ft of meeting space added to the Expo center.
If Hammons fails to come through with contruction by September 30, 2008, the tax abatement will be removed, the city can buy back the land for one dollar and the 90 foot strip of land that JQH controlled between expo center and arena site returns to city.
Criteria met according to city staff: No additional city debt, reduces car park debt by $7 million, retains high paying jobs downtown, enhances use of expo center and provides weather protected connection between car park and expo center.
Scott Tarwater from JQH, Opus Northwest and BC Development reps are there to answer questions.
Councilman Deaver asked about the tax abatements and asked for clarification. Answer: because the land is owned by the city, there is no property tax coming to the city. The developer will be paying tax on the arena site and car park under the TIF and will off-set debt on the Car Park. Councilman Deaver asked if Ms. Smith thought they could sell the car park and said one of the proposals had asked for free parking in the car park so it was a surprise that it was sold. Councilman Deaver asked about the shortfall on the debt. In 2007, the city had income of about $170,000 on the parking deck but the expenses were over $750,000 dollars. The city won’t be getting the income but they won’t be paying debt service on $9 million.
Councilwoman Collette asked about the $2 million debt on the car park and asked about federal grants that might be forgiven and asked for explanation. Ms. Smith said they’re working with MODOT and the US Economic Development Association to get a credit for other work done in the community or get their agreement that they’ve met the intent of the grant. She said they’re still working on that. Councilwoman Collette asked if that means the debt might not be as large and Ms. Smith said yes. Councilwoman Collette asked when the construction period ends and taxes on those items are abated. Ms. Smith said the time frame is two years and they might tie it to a certificate of occupancy.
Councilman Chiles said the land was taken via eminent domain and used for a greater public purpose and asked how this is meeting that goal. Ms. Smith deferred to an attorney. The attorney who answered said the purpose for eminent domain during the actual eminent domain process was public use and that once the arena fell through the reason for public use doesn’t even factor into the situation. Councilman Chiles asked Ms. Smith to address the News-Leader editorial about the process. Ms. Smith said when she did official requests for proposals she said they asked for best proposals with no anticipation as to the proposals. She said they had it became clear keeping BKD downtown and a hotel to enhance the Expo center and said they were “community priorities.” (How is an office building and a hotel really a priority for the average Springfield resident? I don’t see where it is. It seems the citizens really lost out on this deal because the average Springfield resident doesn’t get anything from this other than lower debt on the city. Will we get lower taxes out of it? I guess if the hotel actually pays decent wages a very small part of the community gains something.)
Councilman Chiles asked if they didn’t do a two part TIF process would the deal be different and Ms. Smith said yes. She said we would either have a hotel or office building (which we have a hotel!) Ms. Smith says the city is better off now than if they had gone forward with the first TIF process. She says we went from tax abatements and free parking in the deck to $7 million coming into the city. Basically, the second opening of the TIF commission was because they knew the second time what they really wanted from the developers.
Councilman Chiles wants Ms. Smith to reassure the public this was done in an above board manner despite the complexities. Ms. Smith said all the information of the process will be made available to the public at a point in the future after either the deal is approved or the money is transfered. Ms. Smith said that it’s standard that you do not do your negotiating in public because it would be cumbersome and would result in unfair bidding practices to the developers.
Mayor Carlson asked the city’s outside attorney to explain the process of sealed bids and why it’s worked for decades. That way developers make their best offer and don’t try to just inch up the other developers. The attorney said it was a three way transaction. It involved private participants, BKD and the city at first. The situation being awkward they put everyone on equal footing and asked for a dollars and sense proposal. After these were received the city was able to narrow down that hotel was realistic for the site and went back to all four and said they needed your absolutely best highest price for the land. In that process, the bids came in with Hammons at $7 million (which was $600,000 over the next lower deal.) The attorney said the price was increased in the second time around because of the closed bid process. The process was known to the parties. The Mayor asked if the attorney believed the city would get that price if the competition wasn’t there and the attorney said the city would not have had a hotel and still would have been saddled with debt on the car park along with ongoing costs on the car park.
Update 7:46pm: Mr. Scott Tarwater from John Q. Hammons’ development spoke to talk about building the all-suite hotel and restaurant. He said they are the largest developer and operator of upscale hotels. They operate 11 of the top 20 Embassy Suites hotels in the world. They are in the process of designing how to make the indoor connection between the Expo center and the car park. Mayor Carlson asked about total square feet. Mr. Tarwater said it could be upwards of a $40 million development with roughly 250,000 square feet. Mayor asked about the BKD square footage and Mr. Tarwater guessed it was between 100-120,000 sq. feet for the BKD building.
Update 7:50pm: Mr. Rick Baier of BC Developments reads his letter that I referenced earlier in this blog. Mr. Baier said it was a great development and that BKD is going to be extremely pleased with their facility from Opus Developments. Mr. Baier said he’s worked with Opus in the past and believes it will be a quality project. Mr. Baier said the city and the TIF commission should be commended for their efforts over the last two years. He said “a lot of media wanted me to reveal what sources I had that indicated to me that Opus and John Q. Hammons had the inside lane on this project. The city doesn’t have to be concerned about that. I complete all my own research and when it came time for the second response and felt we had answered 95% of the questions without responding which is why I did not take the time to go through that process again. We don’t feel that we’ve been mistreated in any way, shape or fashion on this process. We would have liked to be the developer but we’re not and we’re prepared to move on, sit on the sidelines until the extent or opportunity arises for projects in Springfield. We’re definitely interested in working with the city to those opportunities.”
Mayor Carlson thanked Mr. Baier for coming down to answer the questions and clearing things up. The Mayor also thanked him for being a part of the process and said that his participation probably drove the price up for the taxpayers. The Mayor said hoped BC Developments will still be interested in the community.
Update 7:55pm: Rusty Worley came to speak on behalf of the Urban Districts Alliance. Mr. Worley said the UDA was very supportive of the proposal. Councilman Wylie asked about creation of high paying job and retaining the ones we have downtown. Mr. Worley said that he didn’t have the numbers regarding how important office tenants are downtown. He believes this will create many new jobs downtown and will be a trigger to develop the downtown area and bring new technologies to the center city area. Councilman Deaver said many times communities they’ve visited build parking to use as a catalyst for downtown redevelopment and asked if Mr. Worley could have seen our downtown getting to where it is without previous Councils taking the risk to build the parking. Mr. Worley said that when you’re developing an urban area parking is the number one area of concern to patrons and business owners.
Update 7:58pm: Vincent David Jericho and his supporters quietly leave the Council chambers. Becky Spence had no comment to reporters at all after Mr. Baier’s comments.
Update 8:02pm: Carl Hurd speaks to speak critically of the deal. He commented how he’s not surprised the city is throwing away $2 million since they’re throwing away $1 million on the square. He brought up how much has been given away because of Wonders of Wildlife. He brought up how much the city miscalculated on the potential attendance for Wonders of Wildlife. Mr. Hurd said that OTC is asking for an 85% increase in taxes. Mr. Hurd said the library was asking for money next spring. He said the jail was overcrowded and the firefighters and police have needs and the city is eroding the tax base. Mr. Hurd asked if the city would stop using 23,812 R-12 students as pawns in deals with special interests. (What is this guy talking about? The city is doing nothing like that.) Mr. Hurd wants the deal tabled and a better deal for the taxpayers. Councilman Whayne said in 1975 John Q. Hammons started the University Plaza and all the development down there came because of tax abatements. He said thirty years later the process hasn’t changed. He said all developers ask for abatements. Councilman Whayne said they had taken nothing away from the schoolchildren.
Councilman Whayne said their first priority was alleviating the debt service. That “the city needs to be good stewards of the taxpayer’s money.” He said we cannot take a lesser deal just to get more developers into the city and eliminate the developer who played by the rules. He said if it wasn’t for John Q. Hammons that we wouldn’t have a lot of amenities that we have in the city today. He said he believes we’re doing the right thing and that the city shouldn’t be in the land development business. Councilman Whayne appreciated Mr. Hurd’s concern but said that this situation has no connection to OTC and to the library. He said these proposals would come up even if there was no arena deal. Mr. Hurd’s response was to ask why the city is building two more car parks after the issues with the first park.
Councilwoman Collette said that she hopes we can look back in five years and see a vibrant urban landscape. She said “we’re rebuilding our downtown” and thanked Mr. Carl for sharing his concerns and that she knew they would hear more from him. Mayor Carlson said for the record that the questions raised by Mr. Carl are valid and should be raised but that people on the TIF commission are on the library board and other boards so they know the impact upon them when making decisions. The mayor said “it’s a judgment call” but they have every opportunity to say “stop” but that it didn’t occur. He said the land isn’t generating tax revenue now but it will in the future.
Councilman Deaver asked Tracy Kimberlin from the Convention and Visitors’ Bureau for his thoughts and he said the CVB was hoping for a hotel on the site for a long time. He said that issues with the Expo center will be taken care of especially concerning the kitchen area at the Expo center. “It’s very difficult to do food at the Expo center when you have to cart it across St. Louis street,” Kimberlin said. Now, he said, we can offer quality hot food instead of box lunches.
Councilman Wylie asked about how a convention helps the overall tax base. Mr. Kimberlin said that there is no way that everyone could stay downtown for a big convention so it will help other hotels in the community and the increased traffic increases sales all over the city.
The Mayor quoted Shakespeare…”All’s well that ends well.” He believes the city is going to get north of $60-70 million more investment downtown. He says it will mean more business downtown and tourism into the local economy. He was glad the questions were asked and once the deal is signed that people can look into the process more closely if they wish. The Mayor said this is a very big part of what they’ve been able to accomplish downtown and a big part of the 20/20 program passed by the citizens. “With the culmination of the Heer’s building…the College Station…the filling in of this area site that Mr. Deaver said would be over $300 million dollars invested that we’ve accomplished what we set out to do downtown. If you saw what that area looked like ten years ago compared to now…I like to compare this to a dental office when there’s a big gaping hole in a missing tooth that’s now being filled in.” The Mayor also commended the city staff for making the deal happen and that it couldn’t happen without their efforts.
The vote on the Arena Deal passes 8-0.
Update 8:24pm: Council Bill 2oo7-295, Council Bill 2007-320 pass unanimously.
Update: 8:26pm.: Council Bill 2007-321. Councilman Burlison said the Wi-Fi downtown was not something the city should be involved in even though the pilot program was successful. He stated he was going to be voting no. Councilman Chiles said he respects Councilman Burlison’s position and says that public communications is part of the charter of City Utilities when it started. Councilman Chiles said that private business hasn’t stepped up to provide it and that it helps young people in Springfield and downtown business & that he would be voting yes. Vote passes 7-1 with Burlison the lone no vote.
Update 8:32pm: Council Bill 2007-323 passes unanimously.
Update 8:34pm: New business with appointments to city boards. You can read these on the city agenda at the city website.
Councilman Wylie said “everyone one of us is here because we care deeply for this community. We’re here to do the best job we can with the best information we can gain. We are here to give our time without getting paid but that’s fine because that’s what we are here for. I commend everyone involved because tonight we’ve seen democracy in action.”
The Mayor adjourned the meeting at 8:35pm.
OK…so the ratings….
Great: Dan Chiles
Good: Doug Burlison, Mary Collette, Gary Deaver, John Wylie, Tom Carlson
Neutral: Denny Whayne
Poor: Cindy Rushefsky, Ralph Manley
Bad: none
Councilman Burlison falls for his opposition to the WiFi issue. Mr. Deaver, Mr. Wylie and Mr. Carlson move up because of their comments on the Arena Site deal. Councilman Chiles moves up because of his excellent questioning throughout the meeting and his shout out to this blog.
I’m looking forward to hearing the comments tomorrow from people who were very critical of the city in regards to the Arena Deal. All the shoes have now dropped. It’s time for some apologies.

“Councilman Chiles said the land was taken via eminent domain and used for a greater public purpose and asked how this is meeting that goal. Ms. Smith deferred to an attorney. The attorney who answered said the purpose for eminent domain during the actual eminent domain process was public use and that once the arena fell through the reason for public use doesn’t even factor into the situation.”
Good question, Chiles. So, the city can take your land for whatever reason, then decide later they don’t want it, and give it or sell it to the highest bidder. The city should give Thompson’s some of the money.
I think you are right Bus.
This bothers me. I think it is a clear abuse of Eminent Domain and is why it should be reserved for situations which wont fall through.. At least that is what comes to mind.
Just remember what the Supreme Court ruled a few years ago - that we really dont own our land if the city government wants to take it away for the interest (read tax revenue stream) of the community.
socialism sux0rz.
“How is an office building and a hotel really a priority for the average Springfield resident? I don’t see where it is. It seems the citizens really lost out on this deal because the average Springfield resident doesn’t get anything from this other than lower debt on the city. Will we get lower taxes out of it? I guess if the hotel actually pays decent wages a very small part of the community gains something.”
A few points: BKD is a HUGE national firm with several non-local clients. Keeping them in Springfield means much of the money they bring in from out of state is spent in Springfield. We all benefit.
The arena land and car park currently bring in zero property tax. With the sale to Hammons both properties will generate substantial property tax (perhaps a bit delayed). We all benefit.
The new hotel and additional space in the Expo Center will attract more conferences and conventions to the city. Those always generate money in food, services and retail sales. That keeps more people employed and generates sales tax. None of that would happen without the hotel. We all benefit.
Adding a business to any community generates money which benefits the entire community. You may not see a direct correlation with your own income, but you will benefit. The property and sales tax money pays for the streets on which you drive, the police and fire departments which protect you, etc. We all benefit.
.. Which all makes my point of the original decision by the Supreme Court a couple of years ago.
If the city thinks it can make a few tax dollars off of your land, kiss it good bye.
You certainly know how to spend a raw, rainy night in October.
Oh, and apropros of nothing, you’ve just been tagged in an insidious little internet meme.
Details at my place.
No tagbacks–tee hee!
I tagged him last week, Strannix, and he did fill it out. The man must lead a busy life.
So Dan Childs gets rave reviews for having NO problem with using Eminent Domain as a means to add(or in this case)subtract revenues from the city coffers and taking property from a private land owner so it can be GIVEN to a private developer.
Tax dollars being spent on a Wi-FI connection downtown and Doug Burlison is the only one that opposes it, I’m not surprised since he is the only small government councilperson we have for the next couple of years.
Apologies !!!! Our very OWN Ice Skating Park is sinking further into the red and that is deemed a good thing !!!
http://www.mo-cpr.org
Tom:
Apparently you just saw “Dan ChilEs” (not Childs) and “Eminent Domain” and decided to use my blog to promote your political agenda. If you really read the blog you will see that Chiles just expressed to the staff member of the city that the land was taken via that method and challenged her on whether or not it served the public good. That is something worth praise rather than someone not asking the question about it.
Nothing was said in the blog about the ice park so how could that been deemed a “good thing?”
I appreciate your visiting the blog but please try to have honest, reasonable discussion about what is really in the blog and not a political agenda you wish to push. Thanks.
My discussion was based upon Mr. Chile’s given remarkibly high honors simply for asking a question instead of trying to do anything about it.
The Arena Deal is given the go-ahead and we the taxpayers are out at least 5 mill on this transaction. I don’t believe this is a good thing and the CC should receive failing grades for not representing the people of Springfield but of JQH.
It is your blog and your grading system, but I don’t find any reason to give our current city council any KUDO’s for being for the people. As for the website I posted it has much good information about the issue of eminent domain and the current petition process which is going to curb how city council take peolpes land for the good of the city council, not the general public use.
They are overall ratings and not just for one individual item. Your original post said he was given rave reviews for having no problem with it when that issue was never raised in the first place.
I suggest perhaps before you’re critical of someone else’s blog or comments that you find out the basis for what you are criticizing.
I don’t mind if you are critical of the city council but I just appreciate you not leaving a false impression about them.
And there was nothing that Mr. Chiles could do at that point because the land was already taken by the city.